Fuck the NFL!

Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:30 pm

  • dckx wrote:Then, regarding what the players were protesting about, I think police brutality and/or police's institutional racism is something worth protesting for. It may not be noticeable to you, but it is to me as a "brown" (and certainly is for black people) how police is biased against non-whites. It is just the way it is, and I don't see how so many people around here are not able to simply admit it.


    The police protest was a dodge.Kaepernick wasn't talking about cops at first. He was just saying that wouldn't stand because this country oppresses minorities.

    It actually makes it a lot worse, IMO. Now murdering police officers is politically correct! Isn't that wonderful? My brother-in-law is a cop who was nearly murdered 10 years ago in the line of duty. But fuck him, right?

    Edit - BTW, yes I've had more than my fair share of experiences with asshole cops. From my personal (white) experience, cops gave me shit when I was younger and they knew I was probably up to no good (which, I must admit, was often the case), and as I've grown older and now most of them are my age or younger they show more respect.

    I love how you cambridge guys always want to "educate" people, and view bullshit like this as an opportunity to enlighten the troglodites. It's not a good idea, really. We don't all need or want to be educated, especially not by functionally retarded jocks with room temperature iqs, and CTE brain damaged to boot.
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Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:20 pm

  • Zerk wrote:Your post is way too long and I couldnt even get thru it because its too much rambling and long winded. Institutional racism is a term used by leftist/socialists and doesnt exist in reality. Racism exists in the mind and isnt a physical manifestation. Discrimination is its physical form. For your institutional racism to exist there would have to be laws like the jim crow laws of the 50s and 60s for it to exist and they do not, which proves your theory wrong. Police brutality exists and is very fucked up but if you think cops get up every day and think im gonna kill me some black/brown people today your out of your fucking mind. If love of country is indoctrination then im guilty, call it whatever you like. Plz keep your posts short.


    I'm sorry you dislike my writing. It seems to me your understanding of institutional racism is too literal and narrow, so I don't believe your points destroy my theory. I believe institutional racism exists and is deeply rooted, and it will be like that as long as people insist it doesn't exist. About the police, of course I don't believe they get up saying "I'm gonna kill some black/brown people", but probably many of them get up consciously or unconsciously not feeling much love for blacks and latinos.

    Zerk wrote:Im not going to come back to this thread because its just going in circles and a waste of my time/not productive. There are about maybe 5-6 people in my life whos opinion of me really matter, the rest idgaf. If America is so bad, plz by all means go live somewhere else and see if you feel the same about a country thats done more for the world and minorities than any other country. If its so bad why is everyone desperately trying to get here?. Ill answer that for you, we are not without sin but still a helluva lot better than the rest.

    I'll try to watch the videos. It's funny though how you complain that my post is too long and then you suggest me to watch more than 90 minutes of video. Then are you really bringing the "if you don't like it go away" argument? Maybe I'm too sensitive but I think that's not a nice thing to say to someone, especially when that someone is in not position to reply the same back to you. I didn't think you would say that kind of stuff. Also, about don't giving a fuck about what people think of you, I think differently and I do care what people think of me, even people I don't know much or I disagree with, because I simply tend to respect people and their ideas, and that includes their ideas about me. Finally, you (the US I mean) are not better than the rest. You are better than some of the rest, and that actually depends on where in the US you are looking, so at the end these comparisons miss the point.

    High on Death wrote:Edit - BTW, yes I've had more than my fair share of experiences with asshole cops. From my personal (white) experience, cops gave me shit when I was younger and they knew I was probably up to no good (which, I must admit, was often the case), and as I've grown older and now most of them are my age or younger they show more respect.

    I love how you cambridge guys always want to "educate" people, and view bullshit like this as an opportunity to enlighten the troglodites. It's not a good idea, really. We don't all need or want to be educated, especially not by functionally retarded jocks with room temperature iqs, and CTE brain damaged to boot.


    But leaving aside the fact that you as a white person have had experiences with asshole cops, do you think that generally speaking police officers do not have negative biases towards black people?
    And I was not trying to "educate" or "enlighten" or anything like that. I have my opinions and I think they are right, just like you or bezerk or TC think of your own opinions. So I have my convictions but I'm far from thinking that we should all think the same, and I know I have my own biases that condition my ideas and the way I think and limit my understanding of things that I naively assume I understand. So what I do view bullshit like this for is as an opportunity to exchange ideas and hopefully find a common ground with people with whom I otherwise have very few things in common (I come from another country, I'm part of a different generation, we have different political inclinations, etc.). So as long as it is done with respect and good intentions, I am very interested in learning what other people in the clan think.
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Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:55 am

  • But leaving aside the fact that you as a white person have had experiences with asshole cops, do you think that generally speaking police officers do not have negative biases towards black people?

    All people have biases, and they always will. Will politicizing football and every other aspect of life change that?

    And I was not trying to "educate" or "enlighten" or anything like that. I have my opinions and I think they are right, just like you or bezerk or TC think of your own opinions. So I have my convictions but I'm far from thinking that we should all think the same, and I know I have my own biases that condition my ideas and the way I think and limit my understanding of things that I naively assume I understand. So what I do view bullshit like this for is as an opportunity to exchange ideas and hopefully find a common ground with people with whom I otherwise have very few things in common (I come from another country, I'm part of a different generation, we have different political inclinations, etc.). So as long as it is done with respect and good intentions, I am very interested in learning what other people in the clan think.

    That's all good. If we want to engage in a discussion, then we can go right ahead. If one of us doesn't want to hear it, then we can let it go. All people should be so gifted.
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Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:13 am

  • High on Death wrote:All people have biases, and they always will.

    I agree. The issue is when for a given type of bias (for example racial biases) a group of people tends to be biased in the same way (for example, biased to think black people are more likely to commit crimes). And then, that becomes a real issue if the group is one that should, in principle, not have biases of that type (for example, law enforcement agencies, which should not characterize population groups based on things like race which have no causality in things like criminality).

    High on Death wrote:Will politicizing football and every other aspect of life change that?

    I think it does. See this thread, we are discussing the issue. And people are having conversations about this all over the country. Perhaps this particular protest was not the best executed or got polluted with the participation of the NFL corporate actors, I don't know enough about this particular case to tell. And you could argue that football perhaps was not the thing to mess with, I guess one could make that case. But in general, I'd say that using platforms that people pay attention to works pretty well when you want to position a topic in the public discussion. The discussion may or may not go in the direction the protesters would like, but it does generates discussion.
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Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:36 pm

  • A nationalist isn't a patriot? Explain.


    Not an American patriot, no. This country was founded on rebellion. No Crowns No Kings. I think dckx summed up nationalism quite well. Love of tradition and symbols before what the country actually stands for is antithetical to what our revolution was all about. Also, it's worth noting that the only reason there's even a national anthem/flag presentation is because the US military paid the NFL to televise patriotic displays before games to boost enlistment. Also, you aren't supposed to hold a flag parallel with the ground like that, wear it on clothing(Hi, Old Navy), use it in advertising, stick it close to the ground, etc.
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Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:01 pm

  • dckx wrote:
    High on Death wrote:All people have biases, and they always will.

    I agree. The issue is when for a given type of bias (for example racial biases) a group of people tends to be biased in the same way (for example, biased to think black people are more likely to commit crimes). And then, that becomes a real issue if the group is one that should, in principle, not have biases of that type (for example, law enforcement agencies, which should not characterize population groups based on things like race which have no causality in things like criminality).

    No causality? Statistics do not support that assessment. Not to say that race is the cause of crimes, but economic class/status is certainly a factor. But so what? Is that justification for murder? How many police officers who have been murdered by Black lives matter activists were black?

    High on Death wrote:Will politicizing football and every other aspect of life change that?

    I think it does. See this thread, we are discussing the issue. And people are having conversations about this all over the country. Perhaps this particular protest was not the best executed or got polluted with the participation of the NFL corporate actors, I don't know enough about this particular case to tell. And you could argue that football perhaps was not the thing to mess with, I guess one could make that case. But in general, I'd say that using platforms that people pay attention to works pretty well when you want to position a topic in the public discussion. The discussion may or may not go in the direction the protesters would like, but it does generates discussion.


    I most certainly think it does not. Constant lecturing about how evil we are, how privileged we are (despite the fact that discrimination against ME, based on my sex, race, and national origin is not only codified into law, it is actively encouraged in both the public and private sector), and how everything we do, say, or believe in is inherently racist does not make me want to engage in a conversation. It annoys the shit out of me, actually.

    And no, it's not about trying to "start a conversation." It's about attacking every institution in this country, and dividing people among racial lines (and in all ways possible). It is a political assault on this country and its people meant to undermine our laws and standards to force radical racially-motivated change.
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Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:05 pm

  • vicodin wrote:
    A nationalist isn't a patriot? Explain.


    Not an American patriot, no. This country was founded on rebellion. No Crowns No Kings. I think dckx summed up nationalism quite well. Love of tradition and symbols before what the country actually stands for is antithetical to what our revolution was all about. Also, it's worth noting that the only reason there's even a national anthem/flag presentation is because the US military paid the NFL to televise patriotic displays before games to boost enlistment. Also, you aren't supposed to hold a flag parallel with the ground like that, wear it on clothing(Hi, Old Navy), use it in advertising, stick it close to the ground, etc.


    Let me suggest that you, and DC if he's your source of information, don't know what nationalism even means. It means that we believe that we need to protect our national sovereignty, and that our government should put the interests of the American people first. I want our government to respect the constitution, respect and enforce the laws it's made, and work to improve the quality of life of American citizens. How that is non-patriotic, I have no idea.
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Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:59 pm

  • Sorry, HOD, what you're describing isn't nationalism, and I never called you a nationalist. You can be patriotic and believe all those things. I'd venture that the players probably agree with you on those things. Nationalism is blind allegiance to country, it's statements like "If you don't like it, get out" or "let's have a civil war to get rid of all the pinko commies". I get that you feel attacked but honestly, no one here in attacking you, we're just expressing our own views. No dc is not "my source", but he put it very well.
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Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:11 pm

  • vicodin wrote:Sorry, HOD, what you're describing isn't nationalism, and I never called you a nationalist. You can be patriotic and believe all those things. I'd venture that the players probably agree with you on those things. Nationalism is blind allegiance to country, it's statements like "If you don't like it, get out" or "let's have a civil war to get rid of all the pinko commies". I get that you feel attacked but honestly, no one here in attacking you, we're just expressing our own views. No dc is not "my source", but he put it very well.


    What you're describing is a caricature of nationalism, not what nationalism is in current politics. The NFL and the media in general like to think that the people who voted for Trump are slack-jawed, redneck yokels, racists, and/or nazis. They have nothing but contempt for us.

    And no, the players won't agree. For the most part, they're too stupid to understand, despite the fact that they've all mostly been given a free college education, along with millions of dollars. Because this country is so unfair.

    BTW did anyone see the video the LA police posted, about the incident where Michael Bennett was supposedly harassed and nearly killed but the police due to his race? Bennett was acting VERY peculiar; apparently trying to hide from police and flee. ANYBODY would've been questioned under those circumstances. I've been questioned by police when it looked like I was trying to dodge them. I wasn't, as apparently Bennett wasn't trying to either, but I didn't consider it a civil rights violation, and I certainly didn't feel like I was going to be shot.
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Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:30 pm

  • I don't think everyone who voted for Trump is as you described. I do think that some of them are though and I think that it's telling that people get more angry about black players not standing than white folks bringing out torches and chanting 'blood and soil'. That the same people who fly confederate flags at "Free Speech Rallies" get angry that someone is "disrespecting America". And when you call all the players idiots you're doing the same thing as liberals thinking all Trump voters are idiots.
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